Episode 25: Joy & Happiness

Rozhovor s Američankou Lauren G. Raymond, autorkou podcastu "Daily Joy" a knihy My Dad Died From ALS  and How I Found Joy 30 Years Later . Povídáme si o tom, jaký je rozdíl mezi radostí a štěstím; o skandinávských konceptech šťastného života "hygge" (Dánsko), "lagom" (Švédsko) či "koselig" (Norsko); nebo o tom, jestli existuje nějaký univerzální klíč ke štěstí.

Transcript

Speaker 2 0:29

Thank you very much for tuning in to this channel and we can start. So hello everybody, and welcome to today's episode. I'm very thrilled to welcome my guest for today, lauren Goldman-Raymond, who's an author, a podcaster and also a joy advocate. Hey, lauren, how's it going? Hi, pavlina, it's very early in Colorado, I have to say, so good morning to you.

Speaker 3 0:56

Good morning or good afternoon to you.

Speaker 2 0:59

Yeah, thank you so much for being here and, as I mentioned, you are a joy advocate. Can we call you this way?

Speaker 3 1:05

Sure, thank you. I try to live in that space as much as possible, and it's not always easy. But sure.

Speaker 2 1:12

So why? And why is it important?

Speaker 3 1:14

I feel like there's not a lot of joy with people around. And so when I started really trying to study this and live this, probably five years ago or six years ago, I realized the difference it made in my life and, as I would do it, my family because I was doing it around my family they started to take part of it and so it was something that we just started to do together and we would make joy a common vocabulary word in our household and we would make joy a common vocabulary word in our household. So it was really fun experimenting with it and really trying to figure out as parents with young kids because my kids were young at the time and as myself and as a couple with my husband. We don't always live in that space. We're always just doing our daily to-dos and work, bills, chores, raising kids, disciplining kids, being an adult that's all we do and that we don't have the fun in it, and I really wanted to figure out a way to shift it.

Speaker 3 2:18

I am an educator as well, so I teach elementary school kids and I've been around kids for years. I started teaching in 1996. So I teach elementary school kids and I've been around kids for years. This is. I started teaching in 1996. So I've been teaching a long time and even though kids can inhibit just joy like they don't even think about it when kids are young, oftentimes they are just, they just live in joy. These days life as a child is a little different, especially with social media and screens. And I see that as an educator too and I see the stress in families and the frustration in families and I believe as families we should try to live joyfully together. You know, have fun. And it's not easy by any means. We have our struggles all the time with each other. But it is really imperative, I think, for families to really try to connect and live happily and joyfully as much as possible.

Speaker 2 3:14

Could not agree more, and so do you feel like well being, joy and happiness are synonymous. That's a great question.

Speaker 3 3:22

I feel like they're different and when I first started doing all of this work, I came across a TED Talk by someone named Ingrid Fatale Lee and she was initially a designer and she wrote a book about designing with joy in mind. It's such a lovely book and it talks about color and just all different ways you can incorporate joy and design, and she talks about schools, you know, or hospitals, office buildings that are kind of bland and blah, and she talks about how, how can you actually create an environment that's filled with joy. But anyways, she says in her Ted talk that psychologists define it this way that joy is an intense, momentary experience of positive emotion. So it makes you want to smile, laugh, maybe jump up for joy. You might get chills, you might cry out of joy.

Speaker 3 4:11

I actually had an experience just over a year ago where I cried in joy and I've never cried that intensely and it was just amazing. The happiness is more how you just feel over time and it's not that intense feeling. So I definitely think that there's a difference between them, because we can be happy, but we could definitely be missing that intense feeling of joy, and I think we do. I think just as a human race, or at least in my country. People are missing that.

Speaker 2 4:38

And now, actually, that you mentioned your country, you're from the US. So I wonder, you know, in different cultures people bring joy to their lives in many different US. So I wonder, you know, in different cultures people bring joy to their lives in many different ways. So is there an American way of bringing joy to one's life? Is there such a thing?

Speaker 3 4:54

I don't think so. There's definitely some tools or toolkits. You have to be in a very conscious state to do that and actually that what I've learned is, if I am not in that conscious state of thinking about joy, I can't shift any patterns or behavior. So if I'm in an argument with my husband and we are frustrated and our emotions are elevated, I am not consciously thinking about joy. Now am I going to feel joy when I'm in arguing with my husband? No, but if I'm consciously thinking, okay, this is how I'm feeling right now, I'm really mad. I need to somehow make a shift so I don't elevate this with him and get even more angry and more frustration. And then we get. You know, we have a big fight. So there's that conscious piece.

Speaker 3 5:46

I don't feel like Americans and I'm not trying to say all Americans, but I just don't feel like we have that. I haven't spent a lot of time in Europe or in that side of the world, but just from what I hear, what I learn, they just take life on a little differently and a little bit more relaxed, I think overall. So I don't think there's one thing that we live. I don't think there's one thing that we focus on and enjoy. I think it's more of a personal decision, an independent decision on people.

Speaker 2 6:22

Sure, Because when I wrote this question, I thought about my home country and I thought it may be. You know, it's like a cultural thing to go out for a beer. You don't necessarily need to drink a beer, but you know you, you just go out with your friends from time to time, and my husband does it, I do it with my friends and it's just a joyous experience that we we tend to do and have yeah, definitely, and actually I think it's also location-based.

Speaker 3 6:48

So I live up in the mountains in Colorado and we live in a beautiful place. We have an amazing playground that's nature and so I do think that the people in my community can live more in that state and consciously make that, because there's a lot to do and nature creates a lot of joy, you know. So that's one thing I always talk about is really tapping into nature. You know we're not in the city, we're in the mountains and it's lovely and all seasons are beautiful up here and there's so much to do outside and there's a lot of families. You know I talk about and I see posted all the time of what families are doing just in our valley and I know that creates joy. So I think there's also that piece too, maybe, where you're located and how you take advantage of where you live of.

Speaker 2 7:42

So also there are many lists of the happiest countries in the world, and oftentimes as the Scandinavian countries taking the top spots. So why do you think that is?

Speaker 3 7:53

I don't know, I I kind of was inquiring a little bit about that and I I feel like and again, this is just based on what I've heard and what I've read is life is just more relaxed, you know, over in the European countries.

Speaker 2 8:14

What you might have in mind is that work life balance might be a little better here in europe than in america. You're very like work oriented and, yeah, not enough holidays and stuff.

Speaker 3 8:26

Yes, I agree. I think that balance is the key, because I think generally people here are working more way, more than 40 hours a week, and I don't think I, I don't know, I don't think. I think in the European countries they probably have that balance where, hey, I'm done with work, it's my time now, it's my family time, it's my personal time and I think that's, you know, a lot to be said.

Speaker 2 8:51

Sure, and also there are these like Scandinavian concepts. One is called the Danish, one is called Hygge. I'm sorry my pronunciation, I don't speak Danish, but I try. So Hygge, so what do you?

Speaker 3 9:07

think we can learn from it. It's taking time away from the daily rush to be together with people that you care about, and even yourself, and to relax, enjoy life's quiet pleasures. There's a bunch of different things, but that's something I took away from that. I don't even want to try to pronounce it, because I'm sure I, but it's really fascinating because when I started doing some joy coaching, I was focused on three pillars and one was starting with yourself first, then your relationship with your significant other, and then your, your parenting, your children, because it was focused around families Right, and it has to be within yourself first before you can work on that with your, your partner and your children, you know. So I would work with people on creating joy within themselves first, and what that looks like, and it says that in there is hearing about yourself.

Speaker 3 10:08

I don't feel like people you know tend to do that as much. They focus on everybody else, especially if you're a mom or a dad or a parent, you're focusing on everything else that you need to do except yourself, and so I think that's first and foremost, and I love the relaxing and enjoying which I don't think that happens very often in my country. There's not a lot of you know, generally relaxing and enjoying and really taking in life's greatest pleasures. To me, that's living in the moment. Right, kids live in the moment. I mean, if you actually watch a child play or do what they're doing, they are in the moment. They're not worried about what's gonna happen in 10 minutes, they're not upset really about something that happened two days ago. They're really in the moment and they just have this pure joy about them.

Speaker 3 10:56

And as adults, that doesn't happen. So in our household we really try to focus on living in the moment. And it's not easy, especially as adults, when you're trying to figure out so many different things and there's a lot that you have to take care of. But when we're with our kids, we really just try to settle in, we laugh a lot and just be in that moment when we're together, and we need to do that with ourselves as well and with our partners, and it's not always easy, you know, to do that, yeah, so I think that's such a beautiful way to explain it. I love that. Um, I don't even know the word or focus that you know is there in the Scandin, many countries.

Speaker 2 11:36

I think it's lovely yeah, because I actually told you that we lived in sweden for a while with my husband and they have another beautiful concept called logon. That means not too much, not too little, just the right amount, and that can be applied just about to anything. You know, I know. How much money should I earn? Logon. How, how much food should I eat? Logon know everything is just about moderation, balance. You know that's like encapsulated in that, so could that be the key to a joyous life?

Speaker 3 12:06

Well, I think so because of the balance. Right, and we talked about that earlier and I think that I love that word.

Speaker 1 12:13

I'm not going to try to pronounce that word, which I'm not going to try to pronounce but balance.

Speaker 3 12:19

We don't have the balance in our lives. You know, I know I can struggle with that and I really try to work on that, but it's conscious living, it's really being conscious about all of that. So if you're consciously aware of you know what. I haven't had a lot of balance in my time this week, or family time, or husband time, or wife time or partner time or children time. Then figure out how to make that a priority Right, because we can just get so inundated and focused on our jobs and our chores and everything that we have to do as adults that we don't have that balance and people are miserable and people aren't happy, and you know it's once. That minute passes, you don't get that back.

Speaker 3 13:03

So to me it's imperative and I, you know, with my kids getting older, we still spend quite a bit of time together, but they do. You know they are with their friends a lot more now, and so when I'm with them, my husband's with them, we really try to take advantage of that time and have that balance. They're going to be gone soon. I mean my daughter's 15. If she goes to college, she has three years of high school left and then she's not around, and so for us, it's to create as many balanced time together where we have with them, because that time's going to end, you know. So I wish that, as Americans, we had something like that, and I'm sure you know every I mean every religion probably has their own word or focus. Um, so I could be missing a lot, but just generally, I think some of those are so beautiful I'm gonna start using them I love it.

Speaker 3 14:01

Yeah, exactly so, and so would you know, maybe, of any other interesting concepts of bringing joy to people's lives from around the world I'm so glad that you had asked that question because it really allowed me to research a little bit and learn a little bit more about around the world. So the hygge, that was number one. I found something that said like the eight basically joyful concepts around the world, and that was number one, which was really cool. This one is spelled K-O-S-A-L-I-g. I'm not kosa leg, maybe it's, nor it's. From norway it's, and they kind of refer to it as the extroverted I'm doing it, I'm saying huger, but I I don't, I don't know.

Speaker 2 14:52

Yeah, probably I bet you're right.

Speaker 3 14:55

I am pronouncing it like an american, like I would say all the letters.

Speaker 2 14:59

How would you say it in America?

Speaker 3 15:02

It would be hygge, hygge. Yeah, I mean that's phonetic ways to enjoy being alone, being with yourself and thinking about who you care about. So, and being with people, so close relationships, right. So I think that one's pretty neat. These are so, these are fun. Okay, this one, this is also nordic, f-r-i-l-u-f-t-s-l-i-v-e-l-u-t-s-l-i-v-e maybe, I don't know, sorry people, so they. So what they talk about is encouraging to look for a positive headspace, especially during the winter months, because winter, you know, north, there is longer and it's darker. Right, for a lot longer.

Speaker 3 15:56

Yes, Very dark very long, yes, and so it all goes. You know they all talk about, like, mental health and really it's all about being conscious. Again, you know, it's being conscious about how you're feeling. So as I look through all of these and I don't need to go through all eight of them, but as I look through all of these of these and I don't need to go through all eight of them, but as I look through all of these, it's just that again, conscious living and feel how are you feel? How am I feeling right now and why am I feeling this? I am stressed, I'm worried. Why am I feeling this way? It's okay to feel that way and it's okay to accept the feeling, but do you want to live in that for a day or two days or a week? You know what, what I mean.

Speaker 3 16:37

And I really believe, within all these feelings we have, we can still feel joy, and that's the difference, too, between happiness. We might not be able to feel happiness if we're constantly worried, but you can still feel a moment of joy and grief and I talk about that in my book. And pain and anger you can get there, you know, in stress and worry and all of that, and so there are a lot. I love that. So if someone searches up, you know joy around the world or however you put that in your question. I don't have that question in front of me, but you can definitely find some really neat ways and words and you you know philosophies that people go by around the world.

Speaker 2 17:20

That is in joy, but they have a pretty common theme and now, actually, that you mentioned your book, you so your book is about your father who passed away of ALS, and you talk about how you brought or found joy in your life after. So is that what started this whole journey for?

Speaker 3 17:42

you. So I was always a very happy person and going through my life I was very happy, but I don't think I noticed, knew the difference between joy and happiness, and when I lost him he died at 18. So he was diagnosed when I was 14 and then he died at when I was 18, just before my high school graduation. At that time I didn't really realize the impact it would have on my life as an adult and when I had kids and got married and my professional life and all of that, and it's something that really is painful. Actually, I just interviewed somebody who she gosh.

Speaker 3 18:18

Over 30 years ago she lost her son, who was five, in a car wreck and so we were having this conversation and I said you know people say when you lose a loved one, with time it gets easier. Well, I don't think it gets easier. Like there are so many times in my life where I have a lot of pain in my heart because and it's been over 30 years that because I miss him so much and he can't partake in my life as an adult and he can't be with his grandkids and my children don't know their grandfather. You know there's so many things. And she said it's not that it doesn't get, she goes, it doesn't get easier, she goes, it's, it just changes. I'm like, yeah, that's a great way to put it, like I didn't think about it that way.

Speaker 3 19:06

And so I, in that book, I, you know I go through that whole ordeal for four years and that experience I had. But then how it affected me throughout my life after he died and how how I really needed to find that deep joy. Right, I was happy, I've always been happy, I'm a happy person. I smile a lot. I always have. But to figure out how to grapple with those, that feeling, to figure out how to grapple with that feeling of grief and loss. 32 years later, I still wanted to figure out how to find that joy in the life I have now without him. It's a happy life, I have a great life, I'm blessed with everything I have, but I'm missing one big thing, and that's my dad. And so it just was a great learning experience for me and reflective on figuring out well, how can I still find joy when I'm still grieving, you know and I'm going to be grieving for the rest of my life without him yeah, and I also feel like you know his diagnosis is just yeah, it's heartbreaking, yeah, it is yeah.

Speaker 2 20:16

And so you know, I feel like nowadays, the topics of human well-being, mental health, are becoming more and more important and we're more aware of these things, which is great, but at the same time, we live in a world that's just full of negativity, full of sad bad news just coming from just about everywhere. So you know how to navigate oneself and all this chaos, madness.

Choosing Happiness Through Gratitude

Speaker 3 20:41

Yeah, you're absolutely right. And actually this couple I interviewed earlier this week we talk about their experience with their son and mental illness and how that can still, how joy can still be a part of a life, you know, even with mental illness, because it can. It's just it takes work and it's hard. I'm not saying it's easy by any means, and I feel like that's just one feeling that we forget about. And it's such an incredible, intense feeling that if we could consciously figure out how to have more joy in our lives every day, people will be happier, even amongst all the negativity that happens. I mean, you know, things happen in life and there's things that happen out of our control and it's not easy and it's hard and it's painful, but we could still tap into joy, and so this question.

Speaker 2 21:33

My next question might be a little controversial, I'm aware of that, but when I was researching for our interview, this came up a couple of times. So I'm wondering aware of that, but when I was researching for our interview?

Speaker 3 21:43

this came up a couple of times. So I'm wondering so, is happiness a choice? Yeah, I think it is. I mean, not everyone's probably gonna agree with me I do think it's a choice. I think you, you have the choice of how you want to live your life, and there are external circumstances that happen, that are out of our control. It happens every single day in our life. It's a matter of how we handle it and how we deal with it. You know and I'm for what I mean. I'll be the first to say you know, my husband says something that makes me mad. I don't always handle it very well, that's on me you know, or vice versa.

Speaker 3 22:17

I know, you know, so I mean that's some to me. I look back, I'm like, wow, this is something pretty simple we could do If I didn't respond or react the way that I just did, which was really unnecessary in most instances. Right, you have a horrible job and you hate it. You have a choice. You can find a different job and I'm not saying that it's easy, because change is not easy. Easy and it might not be easy to find a job, or you might not find the job that makes us the same amount of money or whatever it is. But there's so much that we can control in our lives that can help you. There's just so much that we can decide in our lives to create a happy, joyful life or a miserable life.

Speaker 2 23:00

And so I know we all come from. You know very different backgrounds, countries, so it's just extremely difficult to generalize. But could there be some like universal tips on how to bring joy to, to anyone's life? I think so, smile.

Speaker 3 23:16

There's a very common theme that has come up as I've been working on this and as I listen to other people talk about joy or I interview people, and I've been doing this a lot. What I'm about to say is something I've been doing for a long time, before I even started focusing on joy, but it's gratitude, and some people call it, call them, some people call gratitude appreciations. So gratitude and living in a state of gratitude, being grateful for anything, is huge. That is the number one common theme that has come across the board. Anytime I've researched and it's so simple to do is what are you grateful for? And it's not just listing off oh, my computer, my house, my home, you know heat, I mean those are great things to be grateful for. But it's actually sitting in the moment and taking that time to really feel, to really think about how you feel about those, and if you haven't done that very much or really haven't done that, you just practice it right. So it could be like I used to sit down and write 10 things I was grateful for every night before I went to bed. That's how I wanted to go to sleep is having those appreciations and grateful things in my head. I don't want to go to sleep in a negative state or waking up and saying three things that you're grateful for, and it sometimes can be super surface or like surface level or superficial in a sense, because it's like my family, or I'll do this in my classrooms and the kids will say my family, my food, which is great, but learning then how to really look for what is it you're really grateful for. You know it could just be I am so grateful I have 10 minutes to sit on my couch and read this book. You know like we don't think about those things and it's really incredible what kind of mind shift happens when you are tapping into what you're grateful for. Mind shift happens when you are tapping into what you're grateful for. It could just calm you. Your heartbeat slows down, your stress levels change, they get less and you can start bringing in that joyful happiness feeling.

Speaker 3 25:32

I shouldn't put them together because I do think they're different, so I think that's the number one universal thing. For sure. A couple other things like music can be so joyful if you really pay attention and be focused and conscious about music. You know I love the 80s music. They're my, it's my favorite. So I hear, I hear anything that's was played in the 80s, I kind of go ballistic and I just love it. Laughter, right, Laughter is wonderful. Love it, Laughter, right, Laughter is wonderful. And then finding joy in meaningless tasks.

Speaker 1 26:09

Like, who wants to sit, you know, on a beautiful day?

Speaker 3 26:10

and clean the house. Well, nobody, that's not very joyful. If you think about how you'll feel when it's clean, like I'll do that, you know I'll say, oh, I have to do this and I have to clean this up. And then I think about but I know what it's going to feel like when it's nice and clean, Like that gives me joy. That sounds really silly, but it does. It gives me a little sense of joy. So, again, consciously thinking, okay, this is a meaningless task. How can I feel joy in that piece? And then another thing too and so this all could be really universal for sure is think about your childhood joys. Like we had a lot of people, had a lot of joys, you know, as children. Or look at other children, you know, when you see them and look at the joy that they exude, like it's just amazing what comes out of them, you know. So I think it can be universal for sure. Those are more like, I guess, strategies, but I think that's it?

Speaker 2 27:07

No, for sure it is. I mean, it's just like everything you say just makes sense. I don't want to be angry about cleaning my house.

Speaker 3 27:14

No, I know and I really believe so. Some people might think this is too woohoo, but I really believe that when we walk around angry and stress, that's those things are just going to keep coming to us like that's. There's just going to be other things that happen that make us more angry and stressed, versus if you walk around really joyful and you're tapping into that, things are going to continue to happen that create that joy too, and it can just keep lasting longer and longer if you know how to use it and you know how to think about it and you know how to shift your negative feelings when you have them, you know yeah, lauren, thank you so much for your time.

Speaker 2 27:55

Talking to you has been very joyous, beautiful, beautiful, heartwarming, blissful, soothing I don't know what else. Everything combined, I would yeah, it would be amazing to have you as a elementary school teacher.

Speaker 3 28:07

Thank you so much. Thanks, this is fun. I always love. I always love talking about it, so it lights me up for sure.

Speaker 2 28:12

And thank you to everyone who's listened to this episode as well, and I'll see you next time. Bye.