Episode 24: Theatre

Rozhovor s marketingovou expertkou ze Skotské národní opery, Američankou Carmen, která nás zasvětí do tajů toho, co se děje před/za oponou. O tom, že za dob Williama Shakespeare a jeho divadla Globe publikum nesedělo s rukama v klíně, ale spíš naopak; o divadelních hrách podle megaúspěsných předloh jako jsou např. Stranger Things, Harry Potter nebo Spiderman; o tom, že lístek do divadla v Británii nebo USA může stát i stovky dolarů; nebo třeba o tom, proč je i v dnešním světě divadlo jakožto jedna z nejstarších forem umění vůbec, stále aktuální. Prostě o prknech, která znamenají svět.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:02

I am Parvina and I will talk to my parents from all over the world about various interesting topics. Thank you very much for finding this channel and we can start.

Speaker 2 0:35

Hi everybody and welcome to today's episode. I'm very delighted and pleased to be welcoming my guest for today, carmen Peddock. Hi, carmen, how's it going? Hey, it's going well. So firstly, I have to say so, you come from Pennsylvania, usa, but you live in Scotland?

Speaker 3 0:52

Yes, I do, I live in Glasgow.

Speaker 2 0:54

And so today, we're going to be focusing mainly on your job, if I can put it this way. Do you mind telling us what you do?

Speaker 3 1:02

Yeah, of course. So right now I am the Publications Editor at Scottish Opera, Scotland's national opera company, and the Publications Editor works within the marketing and press team. So it's really great because my background is in theatre and then kind of when I was working in business consulting, I picked up some night shifts in film and television, writing, journalism and editing, so that's kind of what got me into this job. So it's pretty much for me I would say the dream job and it's great kind of getting to work with the marketing team on the wider selling of the shows but also then a little bit with the casting creatives to make sure the programs are right and they're selling the show properly and they're giving audiences the right information that they need to come see the shows.

Speaker 2 1:49

Amazing because I actually that was my next question of this is your dream job, because I've known you for a while and I know you love theatre, you love movies, so it just seems like you're like perfect fit for it.

Speaker 3 2:00

I got really lucky and I kind of just ended up sumbling into the job after a little period of freelance writing, slash unemployment, because that's kind of sometimes what freelance can feel like when you're going from just chasing invoices. And I kind of got into it right as well when I came back to the UK in 2021. So, yeah, I'm feeling just really lucky.

Speaker 2 2:24

And so today we're actually going to be talking about theatre, and so what's brings to mind when you hear the word theatre?

Speaker 3 2:32

So I, when I think of theatre, obviously it's such a broad umbrella, but it's always, it's always live performance, it's usually telling a story and it's very much collaborative, I think. And even if it is, let's say, a one person show, there's a director, a designer, a lighting designer, front of house team, marketing, impress. There's just a whole team of people who bring these shows to life. And now I know kind of post pandemic digital is coming more and more into the four. But they are done in such a way that they are the kind of a one I wouldn't say one night because like the half runs, but they're set time. They're kind of a live experience. You have to be there, you buy in a little bit as well with your own audience. I would say audience interaction. Even if you're just sitting there quietly with the lights down, which you do at 90% of shows, you're participating in it and taking it in in real time and it's live and happening in front of you. So yeah, I hope that works for a definition?

Speaker 2 3:27

Definitely so, and just out of curiosity because, as I said, you're American living in the UK, so do you use the British spelling like theatre ending RE, or the American one ending ER?

Speaker 3 3:39

I used the RE spelling because I did my theatre degree in the UK so I kind of started using it when I was writing essays at university and of course I use it in my job, because we're writing for a Scottish and UK audience. Now if I'm quoting, like a German theatre company, because I think they spell theatre like the American spell it, even though it's pronounced like theatres, and then, or if I'm talking about an American company like American Ballet Theatre, and they spell it ER, because that's like the official title of the company, then I'll spell it ER. But if I'm just talking about theatre generally, it's RE. Well, how?

Speaker 2 4:12

do you name this episode Like I don't know? See what Sweden does? Yeah, I'm actually in the Czech Republic now, so I'll know. Oh, exciting, and that's a different, we have a different word for it. Great, that's probably not going to work, Anyways. So could you briefly you know this is a tough question to say briefly, but could you briefly tell us about the theatre history of the UK and the US?

Speaker 3 4:34

Okay, I mean this will be super brief, so kind of middle-aged medieval time. From my understanding there were many forms of theatre. They'd often come together in passion plays or they'd be touring troops that go through towns and villages doing kind of stock stories, stock characters. I'm sure a medievalist is going to come on your podcast next and say that's completely wrong. But I think what we think of as kind of English theatre culture really kind of started to be codified around the Elizabethan times when Shakespeare and Marlowe were writing their plays and kind of when London was becoming a bit of a metropolis and becoming very international. You had these outdoor theaters that were built and it was a very democratic space. I think you could pay like a penny or something to go stand in the audience. So they were kind of they were mass entertainment and they were done during daylight hours, which in the winter is quite limited, so mostly in the summer, and so they could use the natural light coming in. And then there were more kind of exclusive theaters lit by candlelight for your gentry, your royalty audiences, and that's kind of kind of the start of what we consider like modern English theater. And obviously Shakespeare is still performed today.

Speaker 3 5:38

Not many playwrights from before Shakespeare are really performed and then kind of I feel like this is probably true in America as well, but I feel like the history of English theater is always determined by who's in power and how religious they are. Because in like the 1600s you had Oliver Cromwell taking power from the king and I believe he either shut down or quite seriously censored a lot of theater because it wasn't very Christian. And then the king came back and everyone started having plays and parties and big masks again. And then we had there were lots of comedies written in like the 1600s, 1700s, I think, the 1800s and the Victorian times we also had we had a lot of revisions of Shakespeare in England because a lot of plays were considered a little bit too depressing, especially King Lear, so they kept rewriting the ending to have it be happy and kind of. Also in the 1800s you started getting kind of real stage celebrities, not that like I mean, shakespeare had kind of his favorite favorite actors and such, but I think with photography, with kind of mass newspapers, people could really start following their favorite stage stars, which kind of changed things a bit.

Speaker 3 6:39

And then, yeah, I'm sorry, I'm kind of like drawing a bit of a blank going into the 20th century, but I think it's continued to change, based on kind of the National Theater in London getting kind of the royal funding does a lot of kind of the flagship stuff. It supports new voices as well, but I think like it's very. I think today the culture is very regional. It probably always has been very regional. But just now, being digital, you can see kind of what everyone's doing around the UK, which is great and it just takes so many forms. You had kind of the social realist post World War Two. Yeah, I feel like again, that's a really bad history.

Speaker 3 7:09

But I'm sitting here for like three days and hopefully at least something I said has like we'll give a listener something to go, like research, if they want to find out more after it. So and then go. Oh, they didn't quite get that right, but I think in. I think in the US, at least from what I know like a lot of the theater came over from different cultures immigrating to the US.

Speaker 3 7:30

Like you had Italian opera companies coming over and performing Italian opera, often in Italian, for people in the States and even in, like California with the gold rush, you'd have opera singers and theater companies making their way around to entertain all the people who were out there just searching for their fortune in gold because they didn't have anything else to do. They like left their families and traveled thousands of miles and the chance to make it rich, so they'd always want to go have some entertainment in the evenings. Yeah, and then I think it's interesting in the States. So I know in Europe and to a lesser extent the UK, there is a lot of state funding for the arts. I would say Europe is a lot of state funding for the arts, the UK there used to be a lot and it's really drying up state funding.

Speaker 2 8:07

You mean that the state is actually putting money finance.

Speaker 3 8:10

Yeah, there's like tax money is funding the arts and I think I've heard, like in Berlin, like the opera companies they are get millions and millions each, and they're three of them, which is amazing. And then in the UK there are companies that are government funded, companies that are private funded, but in the States there is very little tradition of kind of government funding for the arts. Like we have our public radio, we have our national endowment for the arts, but a lot of the arts, like the Metropolitan Opera in New York, which is considered kind of the flagship US company, is almost entirely, I think, donor funded. It's got a trust. I mean again, I might not be getting this entirely right, but it is very. It's not like, oh, we get money from the government or we get money from the New York City Council or not, like a lot of money. That's quite an interesting difference in US art.

Speaker 2 9:01

It seems much more privately funded, and so if you had a time machine that could transport you anywhere, which era of theater would you love to visit?

Speaker 3 9:15

Oh, I think the obvious and easy answer would be going back to the original globe in London and just kind of seeing the atmosphere in the audience, because audience behaviour has shifted so much and expectations of audience behaviour. Like they didn't always sit down, sit still, Like I was saying earlier, they were really interacting a lot of the time or having conversations kind of on the side. It wasn't expected that you sat down, watched the stage the whole time quietly, I think as well. Kind of on that note, in the 19th century in Paris and at the opera houses there was a lot of really fierce competition and fierce kind of fan groups for different composers and impresarios and they would sometimes even start riots in the stalls if they didn't like the show or if they just wanted to disrupt the rival. So I mean that would be quite fun to see from a safe distance.

Speaker 2 10:06

That's so interesting because I'm one of those people who like completely hates when people chit-chat.

Speaker 3 10:14

I have to say in real life or like sorry, in today I'm very much like please be quiet during the show, don't talk to your neighbours, don't take your phone out, please don't take your phone out. But if it was a different time and I could see what actually like a proper yeah.

Theatre Appreciation and Importance

Speaker 2 10:27

Yeah, for sure. And so what television show or movie do you think would make an astounding like absorbing theatre stage production?

Speaker 3 10:37

So what's in my head right now, and so this isn't like a new adaptation. But yesterday or late last night, early this morning, all of the stage reviews started coming out for the new Stranger Things play in London and people saying it's amazing, it's like tells the story, it looks cool, which is I was really skeptical. I did not think that show was going to get good reviews. I thought it was cash grab, so yeah, and also like Stranger Things it is. So it's like I don't know if it's filmed on location or a really good set, but it feels very much drawn from its kind of mid American 80s setting that I was kind of. So when I was thinking about this question earlier I was thinking what's kind of a stagey TV show like, almost kind of like succession, where you could do all the boardrooms on stage quite easily? Would that work well? But then apparently this is just blown all my preconceptions about what works well on stage entirely out of the water.

Speaker 2 11:28

But you're like it's the same thing with Harry Potter.

Speaker 3 11:33

Yeah, yeah, exactly, that's a really good point. So maybe it's a TV show does need a bit of magic, because that is a different thing. I think if you see an explosion on TV, you're like fine, you know. If you see an explosion on stage, you're like that's so cool. They just did it live in front of me. So maybe I think, yeah, maybe almost doing I don't want to evoke that horrible Spider-Man musical that like had a bunch of disasters on stage, but maybe, if that was done right, maybe we should do Superheroes on stage instead of on screen now, because that would be more impressive than like just watching a bunch of CGI monsters flying around.

Speaker 2 12:09

I'll say that. And so actually that leads to my next question, because, like, why do you think that we're so attracted to watching? You know, stories happen in real life before our very eyes. What's the biggest difference between movies in place?

Speaker 3 12:23

Because it just seems to me that theater is very like ephemeral it's here and suddenly it's gone it very much is, and I think that is like a huge appeal of it and you want to be there while it's happening and you want to see like these performers and whatever kind of discipline kind of at their best and you're seeing them do that right in front of you. You're not seeing like. Obviously, actors and film are mega talented as well and I think that there is a difference between film acting and stage acting in terms of skills required. So not everyone's going to do both equally well, but you know, a film actor, even like best in the world, could have had a few chances to get it right, whereas on stage it is just it's live, it's the moment and what you see on that night. It might be different than what anyone else sees, but it's kind of what you have.

Speaker 3 13:12

And even when things go wrong on stage, it's kind of it's memorable, like unless it's like a complete disaster. So yeah, I think there's that like kind of you had to be their moment of it, which is probably why so many shows can drive their prices up to like hundreds of pounds or dollars, because they know people will be there or pay that to be there which I've got, I don't know and there's some issues with that. Like when you open up a show and all the tickets left to like 300, 400 dollars or pounds and you're like no, why yeah? But then people do pay that, then I'm like kind of like why don't theaters go after that big money?

Speaker 2 13:49

So it's going to the theater only for rich people.

Speaker 3 13:52

I don't think it should be.

Speaker 3 13:53

I really like I don't think it is only for rich people, in terms of you don't need to be educated to go to the theater, you don't need to know anything about shows before going, you just kind of need to go there and have an open mind and be ready to have fun.

Speaker 3 14:06

But then I think sometimes with the pricing it can feel like it's only for rich people and then obviously, like the best seats in the house will be the most expensive. The cheap seats are going to maybe be far away or they're going to have restricted views. So then I think like it's kind of sad because the people who can afford the expensive seats are the ones who might have the best experience and the ones who can only afford the cheaper seats are going to maybe have to like crane their necks around or miss like half the stage action, which isn't a very democratic process. And I don't think there's an easy answer to fixing that, because of course you don't want to sell the seats at the side as expensive as the middle, and then you probably don't want to make the middle seats or make them all the same price. So yeah, it's a hard one. I think there's still figuring that out.

Speaker 2 14:52

Yeah, for sure. And so why is theatre important?

Speaker 3 14:56

I think it's quite a unique art form because you can again, I think of this. As it said, it's live it only happens once in the form that you see at the time. You're like, even if you go see a show multiple times and I'm quite lucky at work, I'll often go see an opera a few times throughout its run just to see how it evolves but it's different every time, even if they're singing the same notes and hitting the exact same blocking. It's a different energy and I think that's great. And I think there's something that comes from sharing that experience with a group of people, like you know, when you leave, you all will have that memory together Because even if you go to a cinema like sure, like going to a cinema live, like I've had some memorable cinema experiences this year, like Barbie going with a crowd of people and being the only person not wearing pink and just going like I missed the memo.

Speaker 3 15:40

But then I can put the DVD on and go. That film is exactly the same. So, yeah, I think it's important. And I think also, like drama education is super important because even if you don't want to become an actor or director or screenwriter, there's a lot of confidence that can be gained from kind of safely exploring characters and themes and expression through like voice and body in a rehearsal studio. And so, yeah, I think it's. And then once you do that, you also realize, oh, this job is really hard for these people. Yeah, I think it adds a lot of value.

Speaker 2 16:12

And so how do you feel when you sit in the theater? You know lights go down. It's this semi darkness, and the performance is just about to begin because I feel like there's just a very special atmosphere in that very moment.

Speaker 3 16:25

Oh, it's such a great buzz really like, because you know something great is going to happen but you still there's nothing that can quite prepare you for what you're going to see. If it's like a opera or ballet with a live orchestra and you kind of hear them tuning up as well, I think that adds like extra, extra drama to it. Yeah, and then I think, yeah, I just think there's nothing like that buzz. And then I think that we have seen some theaters kind of playing with the expectation that people will get before sitting down, like sometimes the lights will just cut immediately and the show will start. Sometimes I kind of gradually wind it down and everyone will get quiet.

Speaker 3 17:03

I saw a production of Oklahoma this summer in London that didn't take the house lights down at all. So all of a sudden people just walked on stage and the show started and you were in it and since they didn't take the lights down, you really felt like you were in it the whole time, which was really unique and cool. Yeah. So I think I think people, I don't think there's any feeling like it and I also think that everyone who makes theater knows there's no feeling like it and they're like right, we're going to have some fun.

Speaker 2 17:30

And so you've mentioned one name that we actually have to mention when we, if we want to talk about, you know, english speaking world and it's theater, and that is, of course, the great William Shakespeare, and I know you love him. So why do you love him?

Speaker 3 17:46

So I just think there's such variety and truth in his characterizations and his stories and, like I was saying about English theater history, shakespeare was writing for a mass audience. He was writing for people who paid a penny to come into his theatres during daylight and sometimes they would be talking during the show or buying things or fighting with their neighbours, and then sometimes they would be listening and he knew he had to compete with all of these possible distractions and just made some great drama and he's got. I think we could go in well, maybe not me but other Shakespeare scholars could go into kind of issues about class and race and colonialism and gender in his work. And obviously he was a man writing, you know, almost 500 years ago. His ideas are not all modern. In many ways they're very old-fashioned. But then there is like, I think, because he really looks at why people are doing these things and finds a lot of humanity in the characters, even in some ways the women characters, compared to a lot of playwrights who were also writing around his time. I think there's a lot there that can be adapted or even just presented straight and it still kind of resonates today, truly. So yeah, and I think he was very prolific.

Speaker 3 18:58

He wrote over 30 plays, co-authored several more, and not all of them are good. I think when we think of Shakespeare's greats, there's like 10, 12, maximum 15 plays that are like, oh, that's good, that's really good. And then the other half are like it's good with some edits, it's good with some cuts, it can be an interesting presentation in other ways. And then a couple who are just like that's a bad play. So I think, yeah, one thing we have to remember is he just he kept doing it and he kept writing and he wrote really fast. So not yeah, and he hit genius a few times, but he didn't always, and I think that's kind of heartening to know that. Like he's not perfect.

Speaker 2 19:38

Yeah, and this is just a sneak peek, a little teaser, because we will be recording one more episode about William Shakespeare, purely so. So no more Shakespeare for now, great. And so one last question I have for you. So London is very much famous, with you know, for West End, and New York for Broadway. So you know, you're a big, huge theater aficionado. So what's the feeling that flows through your veins when you walk around these places?

Speaker 3 20:04

Oh well, it's a little bit chaotic, I would say both the West End and Broadway. Now I haven't been to New York for like 11 years so I know it's changed a little bit, but it's they're both places, I would say, are overwhelming and they're just like theater marquees and ticket stands that are quite prominent, Like it's fun, because both areas are very much like theaters are thing. You're probably coming here to see theater and so it is everywhere. It's not kind of a secondary feature of those parts of the city.

Speaker 3 20:32

I feel like a lot of times when you're walking around any city you might occasionally see a poster for a show that's coming up, but it's very much taken over by retail advertisements or other hospitality advertisements, not so much theater. So that's quite unique and fun and you kind of know that most of the people who will be surrounding you, even if you don't know them personally, are probably looking at a show or they already have tickets to a show. So it's I think that's quite a unique atmosphere, Though actually I know you said you're in the Czech Republic now and I was visiting Prague last September and it actually struck me in Prague how many posters there were for concerts and shows and performances that were going on compared to the average UK city. Good, I thought that was great. I was like more of that.

Speaker 2 21:21

I'd love that we're very cultural, educated people here. Yes, well, carmen, thank you so much. Oh gosh, time has flown very quickly with you, so thank you so much for this very enlightening chat. It's been great. You're very welcome, thank you for having me, for sure and like, obviously we'll talk soon again. So thank you very much, and thank you to everyone who's listened to this episode as well, and I'll see you next time. Bye.