Episode 7: Europe versus America

Rozhovor s Američankou Carmen, která už 8 let žije v Evropě. Po čem americkém si stýská a co jí tu naopak vůbec nechybí? Co by se Evropa a Amerika od sebe mohly navzájem přiučit? Jak mladí Američané Evropu vnímají? A co ten pověstný "American dream", je jeho naplnění v dnešním světě vůbec možné?

Chapters

• 0:07 Comparing USA With Europe
• 10:31 Perceptions of Europe and America
• 17:42 Exploring the American and European Dreams
• 23:15 Learning From America

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:07

Welcome to the English-speaking group with Kudrunat Holko. My name is Pavlina and every week I will talk to my parents from all over the English-speaking world about various interesting topics. I would also like to mention one thing. If you really want to practice and improve your English, on my page on patreonpatrioncom you will find a complete list of the following conversations, with meanings, phrases and everything else that is worth knowing.

Speaker 2: 0:56

Hello everyone and welcome to today's episode. I'm excited to be welcoming my guest for today, carmen Pedok, who works as a film critic and consultant and is originally from Pennsylvania, usa, but currently lives in Scotland, edinburgh, with her husband to be. Hello, carmen, how are you doing today?

Speaker 3: 1:13

Hello, I'm good, I'm good, thank you. Yeah, it is typical Scottish outside today quite drizzly.

Speaker 2: 1:20

Oh, is it. Well, I'm in Stockholm now and it's sunny. So bizarre. I'm jealous, I'm very jealous. So today we're actually going to be discussing, and perhaps comparing a bit, your old home with your new home. So that means USA with Europe. And well, correct me if I'm wrong, but when it comes to Europe and the US, it just sometimes seems to me that we're like so close yet so far away.

Speaker 3: 1:48

That is very much the feeling I've got. So I moved from the US to the UK when I was 18 to start my bachelor's degree and I feel like the UK is probably closest to the US than the rest of mainland Europe. It's probably a bit with the language and a bit more with the culture. So that was a good stepping stone. But then even with Europe, it's not like worlds apart from the US and UK, but it's really the small differences that make it feel that they lull you into a false sense of security and then you realize, oh, this is not at all what I thought it was going to be like.

Speaker 2: 2:23

And also so, when you were applying, were you just thinking about the UK or like, where there are other European countries maybe being considered?

Speaker 3: 2:32

I was mainly sticking with the UK because I did a drama degree and I was like massively obsessed with Shakespeare as a teenager and so I thought, you know, going to go into the UK to do like study Shakespeare would be great, and I do. I do kind of forget this now. I wish I had considered other other countries to study in as well, but I never. I never kept up my foreign language study very well in high school I did. I did the bare minimum to graduate and then promptly forgot everything. So I think if anyone is listening who is you know of a school age and thinking about studying a foreign language, I tell them please do it, you'll. You'll learn so much, so many doors.

Speaker 2: 3:12

English speakers can be very lazy about this, so I mean, it's understandable, you know, to a point, I would think. Also, do you know that William Shakespeare, he wore an earring Did?

Speaker 3: 3:22

you know that I have seen the picture. That's great. I love it. He's great.

Speaker 2: 3:27

Yeah, and well, back to sorry, our original topic. So what would you say that you miss the most about home?

Speaker 3: 3:37

It's all about the food for me.

Speaker 3: 3:40

I think in the US, since you have so many different climates, you can grow a lot of amazing fruits and vegetables in the country and they often don't get to have to be shipped very far to get to you. So I think like just especially the summer fruits like peaches and nectarines and plums in the States I've just had the best ones I've ever had there and I think I got a bit a bit what's the word? Spoiled growing up in Pennsylvania as well, because I was living in this really agricultural area with lots of orchards and farms, so a lot of the stuff was very, very local and fresh and it was a perfect climate to grow all those lovely fruit and especially in the UK, I think everything if it's not a potato it's shipped in. I feel like I do miss that and also, on the less wholesome side of American food, I do miss the all-you-can-eat buffet culture in America which obviously, when I was growing up and my parents had two very hungry children to feed, we would just go to the local steak house with all you can eat salad bar or a Chinese buffet and just let the kids go to town because it was the most you know if you're feeding two kids who are hungry and just yelling at each other all the time.

Speaker 3: 4:54

You just take them to get a lot of food and they're happy, and I do miss that. I feel like now I'm probably a bit more restrained and not, you know, I won't go hog wild, but I love just. It was a great. It's probably, I don't know. I hope they survive the pandemic, like I hope there's a world that we can go back to those wonderful all-you-can-eat places.

Speaker 3: 5:12

But, every time I go back to the States, to the visit, I'm always like can we please go get first of all, american Chinese food is a little bit different than Chinese food I've had in the UK. I'm sure that's still very different from what you get in China. I haven't, I haven't tried that out yet.

Speaker 2: 5:26

Probably.

Speaker 3: 5:27

Yeah, oh yeah, I'll have to go get the, get the real experience someday. But the American way we've ruined Chinese food is very specific and that's what I grew up on. And then every time I go back and like we must, we must have this specific version of, you know, ruined Chinese food. The British haven't ruined it in the most wonderful way that the Americans have.

Speaker 2: 5:49

That's amazing and yeah, and what are the things that you like definitely don't miss? And I bet you're going to say the excruciatingly expensive healthcare.

Speaker 3: 5:58

Yeah, especially the healthcare, and especially now because I've just turned 26, which means I am now off my parents insurance because Obama who I miss he passed a law basically that you could stay in your parents health insurance until you were 20, turn 26. And that's, you know well, not me anymore. So if I ever ended up back there I would be a bit a bit in trouble. That system's mad. And I also don't miss the reliance on cars, and I think it's it's almost a cultural thing as well, Like I understand why everyone's got a car, because it's everything so much more spread out, but I feel like no one even knows about the public transport. That does exist and then no one gives it any money. So it just keeps getting worse and worse, Whereas, especially in Europe, your public transport is amazing.

Speaker 3: 6:47

The UK has its ups and downs, but compared to the US it's still miles ahead. Just the thought of being able to buy a train ticket and be somewhere else in two, three, four hours is great, and you don't need to bring anything or fill a car up of gas. You just eat and you go and that's great and it's so much more extensive. Before the pandemic, I never missed having a car. I am now jealous of people who have a car and can drive out to the remote regions.

Speaker 2: 7:17

This has changed everything, I would say. But regarding public transport, for example, in Prague the bus is two minutes late and people are nervous. People are like where is the bus? So I do think that in Europe we have a great system.

Speaker 3: 7:34

Never had any problems on it. I love the European systems. I like figuring out the way they're different in every city as well, because they all make sense. But I feel like in Berlin you stamp your ticket and you get on the U-Bahn, and London you've got to have the oyster card to go through. To even begin with. Fun figuring all that out. I forget how Paris does it, but I like the little tickets.

Speaker 2: 7:57

And so well, you just mentioned a few, but what were some other surprises, major surprises, when you came?

Speaker 3: 8:07

So I think the way people dressed is a bit different. Oh really, yeah, in the US, at least in central Pennsylvania, where no one came for any reason except the locals, we didn't care. We were just like wearing running shorts and t-shirts everywhere in the summer just because it was hot and there was no one to impress. And I feel like in Europe everyone at least tries to put themselves together a little bit.

Speaker 2: 8:38

Interesting.

Speaker 3: 8:39

I feel like the athelete trend has caught on in the last couple of years and you see more people wearing nice yoga trousers out doing their shopping. I feel like that wasn't so much of a thing, whereas if I needed to run to Walmart and I just had an athletic top and some ratty bottoms I could just put on real quick, run out. I'd be like, yeah, I could do that, it's fine, it's just Walmart and I think on that there's something else. The shopping is very different In the States. You basically live at the malls or the big stores like Walmart, which you could get everything at your target, and I feel like over here I've got to plan a little bit more carefully and hit things more specifically, which is probably better for the local economy because it's not just like one conglomerate taking over. But I've never got lost in a store in Europe.

Speaker 2: 9:34

And then, well, your husband-to-be, your fiance, is Scottish, so he's a born European. So has there ever been any cultural clash in your household that you can tell us about?

Speaker 3: 9:47

I feel like it sometimes comes down to the very weird difference in words from American English to British English or the way that words are pronounced. I think one that came up was so I would say buoy and he would say boy. It says little floaty things that are in the ocean to kind of mark for ships how deep the water is. And I said buoy. He's like what are you talking about? And I was like that's a buoy and he said no, it's a boy. And I'm like no, a boy is a child.

Speaker 2: 10:20

And also, I guess his English accent is very different to your English accent. Do you ever laugh at each other?

Speaker 3: 10:28

Oh yeah. So actually this morning I was looking up Victorian bathing huts because of a film I'd watched, which are those in the Victorian times, because no one wanted to be seen in a bathing suit, they would like wheel all the ladies kind of out to the ocean in these huts so they didn't have to be improper and then they could get into the sea with no one seeing them, which is wild. But they had a picture from a Bangor I think, and that was beach in Wales that they were doing that at. And I said I said oh, his picture from Bangor. No-transcript, I don't know how he pronounced it, but he was like that's absolutely not how you say it, but if you tried to say it like me, it would sound wrong because you don't have a British accent. And I was like, okay, I can't win.

Speaker 2: 11:13

So like you can't even try.

Speaker 3: 11:15

Yeah, I feel like I'm just going to have to accept that there are some British words, especially in terms of like place names, that I will never say the same way.

Speaker 2: 11:24

Well, I mean, well, that's my life, that's like how we live normally, that's for us. You know, we just say things in the wrong way.

Speaker 3: 11:31

Yeah, I think you. Just if they know what you're talking about, if they see it spelled out, it's like oh, what can you do, you know?

Speaker 2: 11:36

Yeah, exactly. So I wanted to ask. So, like, what would you think is like the common perception towards Europe and America? And I mean, I know that you know this is not an easy question and I'm a bit afraid that we'll have to generalize a bit. But you know it's funny when you see all those like American movies. I've just seen this amazing TV series on Netflix. It's very cliche but very funny. It's called Emily in Paris and the main character is this marketing lady from Chicago and she goes to Paris and she's just mind blown by everything you know the architecture and history and food and culture. Yeah, so how do you feel about it? Is this how you see Europe in the US, or it's just a movie? I mean, I know it's just a movie, but you know what I mean.

Speaker 3: 12:20

I think. So I haven't seen all of Emily in Paris, but I think what the TV show did quite, you know, in quite a fun if very fanciful way, was it took kind of the all of the stereotypes that the Americans have about the French and about Paris and just made the most of them, which is obviously like excellent TV. And I think I think in the US, when we think we think we thought about Europe before I moved over, I kind of just thought like I had London in my head, I had Paris in my head, I had Italy as a region in my head, didn't really know about Germany, czech Republic, anything, and that over there was just like, okay, that's, that's more central Europe. I don't know much about that. I had Scandinavia in my head and maybe like Spain from learning about early American history, but I feel like it was a very there are very generalized assumptions in my head.

Speaker 3: 13:15

It was mainly London, paris and Italy as like this is Europe, this is what you see, you go to. You either have London, you have Buckingham Palace, you go to Paris, you have the Eiffel Tower, you go to Italy and have good food, but there was no. Yeah, I feel like the American idea of Europe, at least when I was growing up, was very much based around the biggest tourist sites and kind of the culture that surrounded those. Yeah, and then Paris like I've not, so I've not actually been to anywhere in France, that's not Paris. And I feel like every time I go to Paris I'm like, wow, okay, some of these stereotypes are really based in reality.

Speaker 2: 13:54

I mean, I think that's why they also exist, like that's like where they come from, like there needs to be a tiny bit of truth.

Speaker 3: 14:02

Yeah, and I think there is. There's definitely, definitely a tiny bit of truth, at least in those especially. Every time I studied, french was probably the language I did the most in school and I was really proud of myself when I went into a cafe in Paris and like ordered a baguette or something and they just responded in English and I was like I was really yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:21

When I was in Paris. They were like Adam and they like what I ordered in English, because I don't know any French and they would just speak French to me.

Speaker 3: 14:29

Oh, my goodness, maybe, maybe, maybe that's their thing. They'll go for the opposite. Maybe They'll just want to embarrass you like, yeah, they've got. They've got two, two options, but I don't think any. What well, I don't think. Growing up in America I knew anything about France outside of Paris, and I still don't. Really, I'd love to love to drive around the countryside and see more of France and different cities, and sure I mean it's a beautiful country.

Speaker 3: 14:54

Oh yeah. So yeah, I feel like that was a really long winded and maybe roundabout answer, but I feel like, yeah, americans, they have an idea of a few, a few things and a few places, which I mean to be fair. If you're if you're a long way away, you'll probably pick up on the big ones, but, like, some of the best places I've been in Europe are the ones I never, never thought about all that much growing up. So, um, yeah, I guess it's just fun getting out and exploring.

Speaker 2: 15:21

Yeah, for sure. And I mean, I think it might be similar the other way around. We would know, like New York City and LA and Washington DC, but you don't really know depth much about proper geo like geography, or we wouldn't. I think people wouldn't be able to tell all All the states and place them on the map. Well, now, I hope people won't be like, oh, you're so stupid you can't do it.

Speaker 3: 15:44

Oh, a lot, of, a lot of Americans can't. I don't know if I could anymore, to be honest.

Speaker 2: 15:48

So okay, okay, good.

Speaker 3: 15:51

Yeah, that is nothing to be worried about and I think that is. You're exactly right and I think I mean to be perfectly honest, since the state I think the states are geographically just just massive. Like I mean, I kind of only know where I grew up, which is a lot, a lot around the East Coast, where my parents live now, which is out in California, and where my grandparents lived, which was in Texas. So I kind of I could, I could tell you a lot about those areas, but if you ask me about like Wisconsin or Iowa or Idaho, like all those states in the middle, I've never been to like the Rocky Mountains, which I know, I just like gorgeous and wonderful, but but yeah there's. So there's a lot of the states that even I don't know about, and I do think that the, the big cities of the New York's and the Boston's and the Los Angeles and then of course, just Texas as an entity by itself, or Are the ones that get all the publicity.

Speaker 3: 16:42

So like there is no reason for any anyone to visit to Pennsylvania where I grew up, I'll put that out there now. Sure, there is Maybe the nice fruits and vegetables, but that is, that is it.

Speaker 2: 16:52

Okay, we won't go to Pennsylvania. Yeah and Well. Sometimes it seems to me that you know young Americans, that everyone's dream is to go and do a big tour around Europe at some point. Do you think that might be true, or would you agree?

Speaker 3: 17:08

definitely from, like the people I I've known and I mean that was that was one of the big appeals of going to school in the UK, like I Wanted to go abroad because it was the kind of the right time of my life to.

Speaker 3: 17:22

I didn't have anything tying me down and the UK was there because of, you know, shakespeare, but I was like, oh, it's so close to everything else, I will, I'll travel around and I and I did do that while I was studying, which was amazing and I, yeah, it was definitely like a big bucket list thing that I was so excited to do, and A lot of my other friends who have been lucky enough to do it, yeah, they absolutely loved it. So I think, I think it is a big goal for many people and I think for Americans, europe isn't like, again, as we're talking about earlier, it's not too foreign, like there are different languages and customs, but If you're visiting, especially for a couple weeks, you're not gonna be that thrown off. But yeah, it feels a little bit less, less intimidating and, again, maybe it's because the good public transport as well, like you know, once you fly over here, you're, you're pretty much set so you can, you can take a train or a bus and get pretty much anywhere anytime.

Speaker 2: 18:10

Yeah, yeah. And well, I wanted to ask about this. You know the term, I mean, we all know the term American dream that, like we can vaguely define that whoever, and no matter where they come from or Into which class they were born, they can just become whoever they want to become in America. Yeah, yeah do you think that's true?

Speaker 3: 18:30

I, I think it can happen, but I don't think it happens very much.

Speaker 3: 18:35

And I think just because, basically, from when you're born and what you're, you know, what your parents are earning, very much kind of determines your, your chances, even if there is a way for you to to get out of it in some way.

Speaker 3: 18:53

Like because, obviously, if you're, if you're born somewhere where you have to go to a really bad school and you might not get into a good university or get a good job after that, be able to go after your dreams, you may have to, you know, drop out or do part-time classes just so you can work to support your family as well.

Speaker 3: 19:11

I think, and I think that it's actually gotten Worse from what I've seen, from like just hearing my parents and my grandparents talk about their own social mobility or lack thereof, and then seeing, like my, my friends, especially because university in the States has become just so expensive and people are in so much debt from that and meanwhile, like I Don't know, jeff Bezos of Amazon just keeps making billions of dollars and you're like, why, how are you still making all this money? And yeah, I think it's harder, I don't think it's impossible, like there's a lot of luck and I I don't know I feel like a system that's based on luck isn't a good system, but yeah, and do you think there is such a thing as like European dream?

Speaker 3: 19:52

That's a really good question, I feel like. Actually, to come back to the health care, I feel like from what I've seen in Europe, it might be easier just to kind of live comfortably in this in a country that's got a Good health care system and a taxpayer funded health care system, because you don't need to worry about going into debt If you just want to have something you know checked out. From what I've seen in many European countries, just a lot of stuff. It's just paid for more, more with the taxes, and it doesn't mean that there are higher taxes. And I don't know why Americans are so anti-tax. Maybe because I've moved over to the UK so early and I just kind of before I stopped paying, before I really started paying tax in the US, and so I didn't like grow up with people like that around me. But I was just like I would happily take higher tax if you could just take care of all my medical expenses down the line if and when I need them.

Speaker 3: 20:42

Yeah so yeah, I feel like and I'm not saying that like I'm sure Europe's not perfect and I'm sure there are some barriers to this, if we're thinking of like a European dream and mobility and having the life that you want. But and also, university is so much less expensive in the UK and I've heard it's free in some places like Germany.

Speaker 2: 21:05

Yeah, for example, czech Republic. Like that's for free as well and like the schools are very good, like good quality education. So it is amazing the opportunities we have, that we don't have to pay for it, like Sweden, same and.

Speaker 3: 21:18

That's great. Yeah, I feel like maybe it's just Americans need to learn how to pay their taxes. And yeah, this coming from someone who never studied economics. Yeah, I know nothing, but I just think you're thinking about it like, well, you know, I just just talking to my friends in the states who are like I don't have health insurance and like that sounds bad. I, yeah, I'm happy here, happy with the safety net.

Speaker 2: 21:42

Yeah, that's. That's good to hear, and do you think that there is something like we could learn from each other, as in like Europe and the US?

Speaker 3: 21:51

Oh, that's a really good, a really good question. Obviously, after, after everything we've said, I just want to, you know, tell the US to embrace public transport. You know, fund public transport, fund their schools, maybe not make people go into debt to go to university. That just sounds like a really bad, bad system. I'm like, please, you know, value, like put put this value in in people and in an infrastructure and helping, you know, people live good lives. But I think what would I say is good? I mean, I do think there's a bit of a American friendliness, so I do think so.

Speaker 3: 22:28

Going back to the American dream, I was saying like I think it'd be, the method of social and class mobility is, is that is a myth in the states to a certain extent. I think that a lot of people believe that it's possible to be anyone, even if there's, if it's not possible socioeconomically. But I think that gives them a really good attitude and like I can do spirit and I will talk to anyone. You know I'm just as good as anyone else mentality which I feel, like you know Sometimes in, especially in the UK, where everyone's still obsessed with this class system, I'm still wrapping my head around. I'm like, yeah, just talk to people, don't. Don't stand there silently.

Speaker 3: 23:10

Guys go out and yeah yeah, have the, have the attitude that you can do anything. Maybe that's something I say that especially the UK can learn from America.

Speaker 2: 23:19

These are some beautiful words to wrap this up. Well, thank you so much, carmen, for joining me today. It's been amazing and amazing fun.

Speaker 3: 23:29

Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1: 23:30

I had a great time and thank you to everyone who's listened to this episode as well, and I hope to see you next week. Bye.