Rozhovor s Irem Shanem o takzvaném "smaragdovém ostrově", zemi zelených luk a pastvin, ostrých skalisek a ledového moře, svatého Patrika, černého piva Guinness, Oscara Wilda, U2 a Cilliana Murphyho. Proč jako dítě nesnášel irské tance a jak vypadá Puck Festival, kdy celému Irsku na jeden den v roce vládne koza (živá, opravdová, reálná koza)?
Rozhovor s Irem Shanem o takzvaném "smaragdovém ostrově", zemi zelených luk a pastvin, ostrých skalisek a ledového moře, svatého Patrika, černého piva Guinness, Oscara Wilda, U2 a Cilliana Murphyho. Proč jako dítě nesnášel irské tance a jak vypadá Puck Festival, kdy celému Irsku na jeden den v roce vládne koza (živá, opravdová, reálná koza)?
We will be talking the rooms from the whole English speech world in various趣 topics.
Speaker 2:So hi everybody, and welcome to today's episode. And here with me today is Shane. Hi Shane.
Speaker 3:Hello, I'm good. How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm also very good. How is life treating?
Speaker 3:you Fantastic. I am just planning on planning my actually going on holiday tomorrow, planning my packing, so life's good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, life's very good, and so today we're going to be talking about your homeland. Yes, also called the.
Speaker 3:Emerald.
Speaker 2:Yeah, emerald isle, and that's because most of the country is covered by intensely green grassland, right it is very true.
Speaker 3:It's a very green country and we get a lot of rain, so it stays pretty green all year round.
Speaker 2:And, of course, we're talking about Ireland. Yes, and so, for those that don't know, would you please be able to sum up the differences between Northern Ireland and Ireland?
Speaker 3:Yeah, of course. So essentially, Northern Ireland is the United Kingdom, it's United Kingdom, great Britain and Northern Ireland, I think, is how it's described on the front of people's passports. And Ireland is a separate state and it has been a separate state from Northern Ireland since 1922. So, yeah, we are governed by two different governments and two separate independent states. We were originally one full island, one state, under the rule of the United Kingdom. Yeah, so we have been a completely separate state.
Speaker 2:And so, like historically, there has been some sort of bit of chaos and rivalry between the two right.
Speaker 3:There has yeah. So I mean it gets very you know it gets very messy, very political. There's a lot of emotions involved, the history between the two nations, but essentially Ireland was under a British rule for approximately 800 years and you know, we decided as a nation of people that we had the, we always had the right to govern ourselves and that we were independent and sovereign nation. It's quite, a very strong culture that differentiates us from Britain. So we really kind of got to the point in, I guess, 1921.
Speaker 3:There had been a long history of unsettled times.
Speaker 3:You know, I think you kind of, I think you have to look at it sort of from a kind of, maybe a little bit more of a mature stance.
Speaker 3:But it's funny because I live in the very south of the country and I feel that like we're very far from the north, so a lot of so what they call it's like a real typical Irish way of like classifying or describing something but there was like there was a yeah, what they called was the troubles in the north and that had been going on for so many years after the partition and particularly, I think it was really bad in the 70s and the 80s.
Speaker 3:We're in the south, so far disconnected from it that it just doesn't feature in our everyday life. So I think probably the closer you live to the border, depending on your political persuasions, you might have a very different opinion of it. But because it doesn't I know it sounds terribly ignorant because it doesn't affect my day-to-day life and it didn't affect my life growing up as a child, I don't have very strong views on it. But there are, of course there are a lot of people living in this part of the country who would have very strong views because of maybe their parents' political persuasions and their ideas and what they consider to be right and what they consider to be wrong. But those who there's a lot of people here in Ireland still feel that the entire island of Ireland should be under the rule of one government and it should be in just, maybe considered just Ireland.
Speaker 3:But it gets very messy, it's very complicated, but I think in a nutshell that's sort of.
Speaker 2:So next question.
Speaker 3:Go for it.
Speaker 2:There are two official languages in Ireland. One is obviously English and the second one is Irish, also called Gaelic. So can you speak Irish? Is it still being used?
Speaker 3:It's been a long time since I spoke Irish. It is being used. The last time I learned Irish in a kind of a formal setting was when I was 17 years old. It's quite some time ago, so I don't use it again.
Speaker 3:It depends on where you live in the country, but there are certain designated areas in the country that they call Gaelic, so they would be Irish language speaking areas. So it's so funny because they seem to be in such little random locations, but kind of, I suppose, on the. They tend to be a little bit more rural and on the west coast. But you have these little, I suppose, areas not necessarily just towns, maybe townlands where there's a big population that speak primarily Irish. Yeah, so I mean, technically it's the first language of the country and the second language is English, but the kind of you know, both on equal importance, for obvious reasons, english is, you know, is preferred just because so many of us speak it.
Speaker 3:But it's been a long time since, I'm ashamed to say, and I think a lot of people that you will meet, you know, have lost a connection between their, between the Irish language and I think what it is. I think a lot of people sort of feel a little bit guilty about it because I think it just forms part, such a strong part, of our culture. This title, our language and how we actually speak English is really tied to how we spoke Irish. So, yeah, there's a kind of a sense of loss so it's still alive, but I think it definitely. There are definitely times where the Irish language goes through these little sort of revivals and people get really sort of nostalgic about you know, about the language and what it means to be Irish and having this connection with your heritage, and people kind of feel inspired to learn the language a bit. But just because it's not really used every day, it sort of just it falls out of use.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sure it's an interesting relationship really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so sorry I'm putting you on the spot, but can you say something in Irish?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So if you want to say to somebody, how are you, it's connoisseur too if you so to say thank you, you said gir of maha gud. It's literally how bad. I had to actually stop and think for a second, like it's. It's that much of a disconnect and when you see things it starts slowly coming back to you but like after the passage of 20 years of not using it, it just feels like such an alien thing. Yeah, you can see a little like you know these kind of like funny videos on YouTube people sort of meeting Irish people abroad and Irish people not having an absolute idea how to speak Irish and they just start like repeating these random phrases to foreigners and the foreigners think like so interesting and they're like, oh, my God, you know, it's such a fabulous grasp of the language you like it means absolute gibberish. So yeah.
Speaker 3:I apologize, my language skills are very bad. In Irish my I'd like to say that my French and Spanish was a little bit better because I focused on those languages after school. So I feel like whatever I learned, whatever language, whatever Spanish and French I learned sort of you know, pushed any Irish remaining Irish out of my brain.
Speaker 2:You know what you're like, native English speaker, and you speak French and Spanish. That's magnificent. There aren't many native English speakers.
Speaker 3:So what does the O in?
Speaker 2:Irish names stand for O'Brien, O'Brien.
Speaker 3:So my surname is O'Carol. So, like you know, there are plenty, plenty of us out there with O in our surname. It essentially means that you're like a descendant of. So I think like there are different kind of variations of this construction of the other name and so you have like Mac and you have O. I think O is a little bit harder to explain, but it's it kind of just, I think, essentially what it means. It means descendant of, whereas Mac is kind of a little bit kind of clear. It means the son of. Yeah, and it changes so the.
Speaker 3:So everybody in Irish, everybody has like an Irish translation of their name. So a lot of people, some people of course go by the actual Irish version of their name Rashane. My name is more of a kind of. It's an English sized version of Sean, and you have an Irish translation of your surname, or you might actually only use the Irish translation of your surname, whereas I'll use the kind of the English sized version of my name and just up to you, this is it. Yeah, exactly, you know it is, and like it was a kind of. It was a great way for Irish people who want to like create, particularly if you're a teacher and you wanted to create a Facebook page. You'd have your Facebook page in your Irish name, so that it was much harder for your students to find you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you have like an Irish translation of your, of your, I suppose your English name.
Speaker 2:And so we obviously have to mention Irish dance.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So have you been taught it's called? How do you call it? Kayleigh, kayleigh routines, yeah.
Speaker 3:I think Kayleigh is more kind of like the, I suppose like a dance festival or something like that, I don't know. So it's Irish dance. I would have learned Irish dancing, like in primary school when I was really really young, Until. I was about five or six. I hated it. We had a. We had a really awful Irish dance teacher who used to to, like you know, he'd have no problem hitting students who weren't dancing and behaving to the way you want yeah it was like, yeah, it was different, it was different times than the in the early 19th.
Speaker 1:It was torture, so like automatically.
Speaker 3:I was just like had a complete shutdown. I was like, no, I don't like this. But we had to do it as a kind of it was a part of our school that we we would have to go every once every week. But yeah, not for me. It's such a big thing it really is. I mean, it can be such a big thing for people. It becomes the whole lives and like it's fierce competitive. I actually, from my understanding, it's nearly even bigger in America than it is. My niece is is American and she's a big Irish dancer.
Speaker 3:She's really has always been really into it, and so funny because she's got this like Fiery red long hair, so like she's absolutely the picture of like.
Speaker 1:Ireland.
Speaker 3:You know, when she does her Irish dancing, and then you, she opens her mouth, she's got this. I'm real, real, real American accent. It is quite funny, but yeah, it's, for me it's, it's a no, it's, it's, it's gonna be a no, sadly and it's just, I don't know.
Speaker 2:To me it seems like you know, whenever I would picture people, whenever they would get tipsy, then they would start Like you know, like maybe.
Speaker 3:I mean it depends, I think it depends on the setting and I, you know, it's. I kind of it makes me laugh because it's sort of like. You know, I have this thing in my head where I picture, you know, the lower decks of the Titanic and they're like up on the table and they're doing Irish dancing and yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's that kind of you know. I mean it's great fun and and it would like Irish song and dance like it's just, it's yeah, it can be, it's it's got this amazing energy, it's. It can be really, really, really fantastic. And add a couple of alcoholic beverages in there and it becomes Becomes.
Speaker 2:Quite a sight, I'd imagine for sure, and so what's the most charming place in Ireland according to you?
Speaker 3:according to me. So in my, my absolute like this is Totally my, my personal opinion. It's it's going to be Kerry. So I'm originally from Kerry, actually living cork, cork cities. Cork city is is like the second biggest city in Ireland. I so I'm originally from Kerry, but it's it's quite rural. It's completely on the West Southwest coast of Ireland and it's just got the most amazing beaches, amazing landscape, beautiful mountains. It's Really like the one of the most scenic parts of the country. There are plenty of scenic parts, but yeah, in my opinion it's you just can't beat it like it's.
Speaker 3:It's the best, and if you needed to have a bucket list of Places to go before you die, I think you need to. You need to put Kerry on that list.
Speaker 3:Well, do yeah, so they say there are two kingdoms the kingdom of, I think is that the kingdom of God and the kingdom of Kerry. So Kerry is also. Kerry is also known as the kingdom, but all you need to do is you need to Google some Images of Kerry. I couldn't sell it more if I tried. I really do think it's. It's one of the most beautiful places that everybody should see.
Speaker 3:No, I think fantastic marketing and I'm not getting paid to say that, and so I also read, when I was researching, that Halloween actually originated in Ireland.
Speaker 2:Yes so what are some other like? Must celebrate dates or days in very interesting.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, halloween is always going to be a very, very interesting day. It's, you know what's a really fun time of the year to celebrate. But I think, you know, I think Americans have been kind of more responsible for that for the the spooky dressing up aspect of it, but I mean it's, it's lovely.
Speaker 3:So I mean, probably one of the biggest celebrations in Ireland is going to be going to be St Patrick's Day, because it's our national holiday and, yeah, I mean everybody is, is is off from work, schools are closed and it's yeah, it's uh that the like the country goes, like it goes mad for like one one day.
Speaker 3:So St Patrick's Day is like, as you know, st Patrick is the patron saint of Ireland and he so it's his feast day. It's actually also Mark's day, so he's dead, and it's the 17th of March and in like every town and like in so many little villages around the whole country, you have these big parades. So you have everybody comes out like if they're so, for example, if you're an Irish dancer, you'll come out with like completely dressed head to toe and you're Irish dancing, rigged out, as they say, and you know there's just like different. Yeah, there's like so many different teams and in these parades you can have anything from like the absolutely outrageous to like the most artistic. It's pretty cool, it's great fun to witness and it's honestly, I actually think that the probably the bigger parades are probably in places like Boston and New York.
Speaker 2:I saw it. I saw it once in London oh yeah, it was also it was also pretty wild, it was beautiful though it's a great opportunity, it's it.
Speaker 3:You know what it is? It's a really great excuse as opposed to an opportunity. Well, probably both an excuse and an opportunity for everybody to then, you know, just absolutely go a little bit wild, drink a little bit too much, but it's, it's great fun, it's.
Speaker 2:You know, these, these kind of celebration days are really, really great fun, sure, and so what would you say that Irish people are most proud of? That's a tough one, honestly.
Speaker 3:I think Irish people are Irish people are really, really proud of, like, being Irish. I think it's something that they're always going to share. It's one of the first things that Irish people are going to let you know when you meet them abroad. I think that, because you know Irish people have you're probably it's fairly obvious, you have the gift of the gab. We love to chat extremely. I think we can be just extremely friendly people.
Speaker 3:We're very kind of proud of our heritage and I know at times like I also, I like sound like I'm completely contradicting myself now because you know people get very proud of their heritage and their language and you know, then you kind of go to the, to the root of when you're like, oh yeah, my language skills wouldn't be the best, but I mean we, we would be very proud of our, our history and our heritage, our past and our development and how much the country has changed in the last you know, 40 or 50 years.
Speaker 3:We went from, you know, this sort of little remote island and the west of Europe. We became a member of European Union and you know, think a lot of things changed for us and education became a really big thing but like one of the biggest things for me when I was, when I was in college, was the opportunity to be able to go and study in Erasmus year and you know we had. It was such an amazing opportunity because it was so affordable. It was something that we could. We could do financially. I come from a really big family, which is a really another really big Irish thing.
Speaker 3:Like there's six kids in my family, I'm not one of the six kids and like you know, that's, that's normal, not so much anymore. It certainly was when I was growing up and before. There's, some families have, like I know a family, they've got 18 kids. That was one, eight, 18. Yeah, yeah, now you never hear of that anymore, but like that was an extreme maybe 50, 60 years ago. But like, yeah, there's six people and there's six, the six children in my family and I know families who had 12 children, that's. You know, when I was growing up there was kids in my class and they were, you know, one of 12.
Speaker 3:That's fascinating yeah, there was a lot. There was a lot changing. In the 90s we had what was called a Celtic Tiger. I don't know if you've ever heard even of the term, but things were really, really good for us during during the Celtic Tiger and the country grew, economy grew, the population grew. It was, it was a good place to live until, like the, the crash of 2008 things I think would like 2007, 2008, when that recession sort of hit the world globally things. Things went pretty bad for for a while. Here, I think definitely the, the growth of Ireland on how we have developed over the last 30 or 40 years is definitely something that we would always be very proud of interesting, and and so I already mentioned my research.
Speaker 2:So have you heard of a festival where a wild goat is caught and made king for three days? Yes, yes I have all my days because I thought that the internet just made it up no, and you know what it is.
Speaker 3:It is in county Kerry, where I am from, in a little town called Cullorghan and it's called Huck Fair and it is. You know, it always makes me laugh because it occurs in the same three days every year, regardless of when those days fall, which I always think it's a little bit crazy because the town pretty much like closes down for Puck Fair. I think it's like that 10th, the 9th, the 10th and the 11th of August, something like that every single year, and they captured this goat and they put him in this little pedestal and it has, it's like, has ties to like, oh, like really ancient, has really ancient eyes. It just goes. I think it goes back something like centuries and it still happens and people in Klauglin, where it happens, they're so proud of this festival. It's such a crazy few days.
Speaker 2:It's absolutely fascinating to see it's it's it's crazy and hilarious and yeah, Sounds super fun it sounds like it belongs in a completely different world, but yeah and we also have to mention the Literary tradition, or like the tradition of literature in Ireland, obviously with names like Oscar.
Speaker 1:Wilde James.
Speaker 2:Joyce or Samuel Beckett. So do you have a favorite writer?
Speaker 3:So, in full disclosure, I am Really really bad when it comes to reading Irish literature and I will admit that I have never read any of the works of any of these writers at all, and it's much to my Embarrassment that I haven't. It just was never something. You know what you're honest?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know it's either, like you know, I completely lie and tell, like you know, a made-up story, or like why I think such and such is I, I don't know why I've actually, and I had, when I, I, when I considered a question, I was like, why didn't I Ever read any of these? I will say, however, I find that the life of Oscar Wilde was was pretty fascinating. When I was in Paris last year, you know, I had, I I took a trip to Parle de chez cemetery, just just a really, really, really cool place when he's buried, and I kind of got a little bit deeper into, like, his life and his story and his background. It was really, really fascinating. I think that should be enough to kind of encourage me to To want to read some, some literature.
Speaker 3:So I'm going to hold my, my judgment on who is the better of those three writers until I I'm a little bit more informed. But we have a lot we you know Ireland is, I don't know again, it's, it's, you know, it's one of these things, that kind of Ireland assertive, known as the land of saints and scholars, and I think that the reason it's it's called out is because, a lot of you know, we have some amazing writers and some amazing poets and do you have a favorite Irish artist?
Speaker 3:one artist that I love is a Very little known artist and her name is Lisa Hannigan. I think she's a really kind of. She's a fabulous, really really gifted musician. It's my personal taste a lot of people will like mention. You know things probably a lot more mainstream, you too, probably.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, hosea is another really really good Irish oh yeah singer, which I really like, again Absolutely just a really really gifted musician. I think he's a little bit more well-known worldwide, yeah, but he's, yeah, definitely, yes, yes, it's really fabulous and so apparently an average Irishman drinks around 100 liters of beer a year. No.
Speaker 2:So are you not a typical?
Speaker 3:I am not a typical Irish man, because I do not drink that I have definitely. I will tell you again full disclosure I am a. I'm very typical when it comes to if I'm going to meet my friends and we're going to have some drinks, I will think nothing of like having five, six, seven, eight points of beer. You know that. You know what they say. You know what they call the crack. It's like the. I don't even know how you, how you would explain the crack like the crack is the phone.
Speaker 1:Good time, yeah, it's a good time.
Speaker 3:So you know it's like the energy and how, how it all kind of flows. So you just kind of get caught up in a moment. I'm that's, that's, that's the kind of person that I am when I drink. I get really caught up in the moment. We get very excited about the, the crack and and and the atmosphere and we'll just kind of like flow with it. Where and I won't be as kind of, I suppose, restricted reserve, but I, my thing is is that at the ripe old age of 37, I, you know work is a, work is a big part of my life, and studying and and and yeah, hangover is a terrible thing at 37 years old.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, yeah, so you suffer over 30.
Speaker 2:This is it.
Speaker 3:You know what happens. You suffer for so long.
Speaker 3:It's not worth it no it's definitely not worth it. I'm not cut out, I'm just not made like other Irish men. I don't think, unfortunately. Well, maybe fortunately, and do you drink Guinness? I like I. You know I would drink Murphy's because I'm in cork so we have Murphy's or beamish. So they're like typical court drinks. They look taste very similar to Guinness. I might be shocked for saying that in terms of taste, but they look very similar to Guinness. It's like that you know big point of black stuff with that creamy head. They look the exact same.
Speaker 3:so for all intents and purposes, to you that looks like a Guinness, but yeah, they're like brewed locally.
Speaker 2:And so you already mentioned the word crack. Yes, it means kind of like, you know, good times, yeah, good times, good energy, good vibe. So is there anything else you can think of? That's like typically Irish, like typical Irish slang.
Speaker 3:Oh, typical Irish slang. That was a very good one. I think a lot of the typical Irish slang that comes to mind is probably not repeatable publicly because it's yeah, it's because it's probably filthy, like you know, like it's where words.
Speaker 3:Exactly, crack is definitely a good one and I think it can be, like, obviously misinterpreted, especially again by Americans, because they think when you, when you say crack, they think crack cocaine. Yeah, which never ceases to make me laugh. I think there's a lot of again. What I find is from living in Cork and Ireland is really funny like that because we are such a small country, we've got so much diversity in terms of our accents and how we speak, so somebody who's living in Donegal, for example, versus somebody who's living in Kerry versus somebody who lives in Cork.
Speaker 3:The accent is so different. You know, I don't know what it would sound like to a foreigner who doesn't speak English as their native language, but like for us it's hilarious. So that means every kind of area has its own slang. So Cork has a lot of its own slang and it always makes me laugh. And I remember being so confused when I first moved here.
Speaker 3:I'm only from like two hours away, but when I first came here Cork people use the term say I'd lost my phone or something like that. I remember exactly the scenario and I happened to find it again and then somebody turned around to me and said, oh, you're haunted. And I was like what do you mean? And apparently like haunted is in like a haunted house, as it's spooky, which. And so I was like okay, I couldn't figure out the context of how it was being used. And apparently in Cork, specifically Cork, nowhere else in the country, to be haunted means to be lucky, as someone calls you a lusher, it means that you are like really good looking. And I just think, for like foreign people again who don't speak English as their native tongue. To hear people saying these things. It must be the most confusing thing, to hear.
Speaker 2:And so my very last question.
Speaker 3:Go for it.
Speaker 2:So what's the most typical Irish thing that an Irish mother would say to her Irish kid?
Speaker 3:Oh, there are so many different things. A lot of people in Ireland would prefer to their mother as their mommy. Again, it depends on where you're from and your and everybody's mother has a, like you know, a set load of phrases. One thing that all Irish people, like you'll, like Irish people, always kind of repeat is so there's this thing in Ireland when we have what's called the immersion, and trying to explain to people what the immersion is is absolutely hilarious, but essentially what it is is it's the boiler tank in somebody's house that boils the hot water for showers and baths and sinks.
Speaker 3:And I think Irish people was having like really energy obsessed because they were just like you know, it's like the dad going around turning down the thermostat and, like you know, just like conserving energy and, you know, trying to keep the bills down low. So this Irish mommy saying, which is, did you turn off the immersion? Versus like this one Irish thing that mothers say to all of their children because heaven forbid that if you did not turn off the switch or the immersion and that boiler kept boiling the water for a period of time beyond what was reasonable, the whole out, your whole, it would be like something like your whole family would go. You know, would be completely, would be completely impoverished by the electricity bill that you would get.
Speaker 3:So like mothers and fathers, I think it's, so it probably applies to most mommies and daddies.
Speaker 2:Oh god, that's hilarious. Well, shane, I have no more questions. Thank you so much for this wonderful insight, irish insight, you're very welcome.
Speaker 3:It has been a real pleasure. It's taken me a little bit down memory lane and it has definitely highlighted to me my shortcomings as an Irish person. So to anybody who may happen to listen to this, as an Irish person I think I have a lot of I have a lot to brush off on my Irishness.
Speaker 2:No, I think you're great. Thank you so much, and thank you to everyone who's listened to this episode as well, and I'll see you next time. Bye.